Commil v. Cisco: Belief-of-Invalidity not a Defense to Inducement

by Dennis Crouch

In Commil v. Cisco (Supreme Court 2015), the Supreme Court has held:

A defendant’s “belief” that a patent is invalid does not serve as a defense to charges of inducing infringement of the patent.  “The scienter element for induced infringement concerns infringement; that is a different issue than validity.”  Of course, if the patent is proven invalid then no liability attaches.  Thus, the defense here had asked for a holding that a good-faith-but-incorrect-belief of invalidity serve as a defense.

In what appears to me again as dicta (though powerful dicta), the court also indicated its agreement with the Federal Circuit that inducement requires proof that the accused both (1) knows of the patent-in-suit and (2) knows that the actions induced constitute patent infringement.  Although the court initially wrote that this issue “is not in question here,” it then went-on to explain how Global-Tech should be read to require knowledge-of-infringement as a prerequisite to induced infringement liability.  “Global-Tech requires . . . proof the defendant knew the acts were infringing. And the Court’s opinion was clear in rejecting any lesser mental state as the standard.”

The court had been encouraged to allow belief-of-invalidity as a defense in order to help stifle “abusive patent assertion.”  In a several paragraph statement of dicta, the court explained that it understands the potential problem of frivolous actions, but that district courts are have the tools of addressing the problem. One tool, for instance, is that of sanctioning attorneys through Rule 11 and awarding fees under Section 285. “These safeguards, combined with the avenues that accused inducers have to obtain rulings on the validity of patents, militate in favor of maintaining the separation expressed throughout the Patent Act between infringement and validity.”

Read the Opinion.

All members of the court agreed with notion that inducement does require knowledge of the infringing nature of the accused acts.  Justice Scalia joined by Chief Justice Roberts argued in dissent that a would-be defendant who (in good faith but wrongly) figures out that a patent is invalid (though without actually invalidating the patent) should be free to act without concerns regarding inducement.  Interesting, the pair note that the majority opinion “increases the in terrorem power of patent trolls.”

= = = = =

This is a split decision for patentees.  On the one hand, it pushes away an entire set of defenses to inducement. But, on the other hand, the court solidifies a high wall by requiring proof that an accused inducer have known that the induced acts would constitute infringement of the asserted patent claims.  In my view, this requires at least a limitation-by-limitation claim chart or an admission.

141 thoughts on “Commil v. Cisco: Belief-of-Invalidity not a Defense to Inducement

  1. 19

    I would say it is clear that a defendant’s “belief” that a patent is invalid is no defense to charges of inducing infringement of the patent. Acting in good faith doesn’t mean much. They should have done their research.

  2. 18

    Even the Supreme Court here is now saying that if you want to challenge patent validity when sued you could file an IPR or other post-grant PTO proceeding [in which the cost, speed and odds are vastly better].

    So how come still less than half of current* patent suit defendants who could do so are still not doing so?

    *[most old patent suits filed more than a year before IPR’s became available, like this one, have settled or are ending.]

    1. 18.1

      how come still less than half of current* patent suit defendants who could do so are still not doing so?

      1) They have a fantastic non-infringement (or other non-invalidty) defense so why bother?

      2) They have a reasonable non-infringement (or other non-invalidity) argument but the validity argument is questionable

      3) The invalidity defense is so easy that summary judgment will be faster than a post-grant procedure at the PTO

      4) Other strategic reasons (e.g., defendant wants more control over the precise contours of the invalidity argument at trial than in post-grant proceeding, or wishes not challenge validity strenuously, because of potential impact on its own patents).

      1. 18.1.1

        MM, let me add this to the list,

        Judges are likely, I think, to stay an infringement case pending an IPR. This could take years given an appeal of the IPR to Federal Circuit. Thus litigators who prefer to litigate and make a lot of money doing that might be adverse to IPRs out of self interest.

        1. 18.1.1.1

          Both Ned and MM provide interesting possible explanations of why IPRs are only filed in response to a minority of patent suits. In response to MM I would only note that:
          1. There are statistics that summary judgement based on invalidity in view of prior art is only obtained in a very small percentage of patent suits, and quite often reversed on appeal. [Just as it was by the Fed. Cir. in KSR]
          2 Reportedly an unfortunate number of D.C.s will not seriously consider S.J. motions on either non-infringement or invalidity early in the litigation, and too often not until near the trial date after large discovery and trial preparation costs [which forces many defendants into settlements before they can ever obtain the cost-benefit of a S.J.]
          3. If neither party request a stay, or the request is not granted, why cannot the IPR proceed in parallel with the non-infringement case and get decided by the PTAB well before the trial date?
          4. If the invalidity argument is weak, is not that all the more reason NOT to “save it for the jury” and use it in an IPR, unless there is really a good chance of finding a better invalidity defense in discovery?

          1. 18.1.1.1.1

            Regarding stays, B&B Hardware holds that a judgment in a DC will be collateral estoppel in the PO. According to the case law, collateral estoppel applies when a DC judgment is final — regardless of the appeal. Thus, due to the subtantive advantages of an IPR regarding claim construction and burden of proof, defendants would want to halt the DC case so as to prevent the possibility of an adverse district court judgment disrupting their IPR.

  3. 17

    When a comment featuring a classic Saturday Night Live Akroyd moment is censored, you know that you are wound more than just a little too tight.

    Lighten up Prof.

    1. 17.1

      Richard Pryor had some “classic” bits, too. So did George Carlin.

      What’s funny in one context does not necessarily carry over into contexts remotely removed from the original context. That’s especially true where the humor flows from the “shocking” break of an understood norm (e.g., “respected” newscasters on TV saying nasty things to each other) and doubly so where it wasn’t really that clever in the first place.

  4. 16

    Interesting. Kennedy wrote the lone dissent in Global-Tech, saying that the majority substituted “willful blindness” for knowledge (there was no direct evidence that Pentalpha had knowledge of the patent). Then he writes the majority opinion in Commil “reaffirming” Global-Tech as background to reject good faith belief as to invalidity. Quite a swing.

    Much more litigation to come.

    1. 16.1

      Steve, and it is sad but interesting that the only Justice not to join in Kennedy’s idea that one must prove that the inducer knew that what it was inducing was patent infringement was Thomas.

      7-1 against commons sense. Breyer did not participate.

      Where is your concurring opinion Justice Thomas? We could have used it.

      1. 16.1.1

        Breyer did not participate.

        I thought I read something somewhere about Breyer having a pretty solid batting average this term.

        1. 16.1.1.1

          Batting average… For which team?

          Tell me again what President Clinton’s released papers said about Justice Breyer (hint: the same thing about the other two Justices that make up the dwindling “Stevens direct rewrite of the words of Congress in a constitutionally directed statutory law power allocation”).

          1. 16.1.1.1.1

            Batting average… For which team?

            Team Breyer. All I’m saying is that he’s been with the majority relatively frequently this past term (or so I remember reading somewhere …?).

            1. 16.1.1.1.1.1

              All I’m saying

              is NOT a response to my post. Clearly, I know what you said – and added a substantive point to it.

              Do you need a refresher course in how dialogues are supposed to work?

      2. 16.1.2

        One suspects that Thomas stuck with the language of the statute, which is silent about knowledge or intent. He is not big on legislative history. Since (a) is strict liability, he would see no reason for (b) not to be. If that is his analysis, why stick his neck out as being that strict a textualist?

        1. 16.1.2.1

          Erik, and he might actually have read this: link to papers.ssrn.com

          Sichelman, Ted M., Brief of Law Professors, as Amici Curiae, in Support of Respondent in Global-Tech Appliances v. SEB. San Diego Legal Studies Paper No. 11-047. Available at SSRN:

          “Opinions from the Supreme Court and lower courts from the mid-19th century through the passage of the 1952 Act repeatedly held that aiding and abetting direct patent infringement solely required specific intent merely to further the acts that constituted direct infringement, and did not require knowledge of the patent-in-suit. Because Congress codified this precedent, the Supreme Court should not find that Section 271(b) requires the inducer to know of the applicable patent.”

          1. 16.1.2.1.1

            Great post Edward. I would be interested in Prof. Sichelman vs. Lemley on this issue. I’d bet that Lemley supports this decision and would claim it is not judicial activism.

            I’d like to see what Sichelman has to say about Lemley’s view on this issue. Maybe Prof. Sichelman might start to understand why those that actual practice patent law dislike Lemley’s views and believe they are judicial activism.

  5. 15

    Troll.

    Supreme Court now talks about trolls. Fortune, IIRC, called Commil a troll, even though it has won jury verdicts and had its patent confirmed in reexamination.

    The SCOTUSBlog spoke of “frivolous claims” implying that Commil’s claims were frivolous because it was a troll.

    It is time that we all grow up. There are bad patents. There are frivolous claims. But a market for patents and patent licensing are important for innovation because without such a system, startups would not be funded.

    People who cover this up, who deny that startups are a source of innovation if not the only source of innovation, are, IMHO, substantially harming not only the patent system, but America.

    1. 15.1

      I agree Ned and I think there are some preliminary studies on innovation that suggest that the destruction of our patent system is hurting innovation.

      But, big picture, the SCOTUS is a slave to big international corporations, and the Googles want a different patent system that only serves their interests.

      I don’t know what can stop it at this point. You guys have been making fun of me for many years because I said this was coming. I don’t see it stopping. The patent system is like our bridges there is no one to speak for it.

      It might make sense for a history lesson of why the fed. cir. was formed and the profound effect that patent law had on innovation in the 1980’s.

      (Tech workers: get ready for not being able to move companies.)

      1. 15.1.1

        “Scotus is a slave to big international corporations…”

        What? I have never seen any evidence of that. With their lifetime appointments and power, I have a hard time anyone on the Supreme Court gives a dang what any corporation thinks.

        Remember: this is a win for patent owners!

        1. 15.1.1.2

          You are clearly missing the nuanced points, Go. Not surprising really given your predilections and cheerleading tendencies.

          Sadly, Ned’s cries fall a little shallow, given his own repeated windmill chasing against certain types of innovation that he Beliebs fall outside of some “chosen special status.”

          Night Writer indeed has been consistent and strong in his views (even as many view those views as “too strong”).

          It comes to simply recognizing that the patent system has been under attack – from both the Left and from the Right. United in “desired ends,” and just not critically evaluating the means to those ends, the formerly strong U.S. patent system is cracking, and “all of a sudden” those cracks “bother” Ned, when these really are NOT unforeseen consequences.

          1. 15.1.1.2.1

            Someone says the SCOTUS is a “slave” to big corporations and I’m the one missing the nuanced points. If you say so.

            1. 15.1.1.2.1.1

              Yes.

              Perhaps you need to pay better attention to the rest of the comments made, instead of being so eager to take an opposing viewpoint (just because you like to cheerlead that side).

            2. 15.1.1.2.1.2

              Go, did you bother to address the substance of my response? No. Please review what the SCOTUS did in anti-trust law then get back to me.

              (Why is it that you anti-patent people are incapable of responding to the substance of posts? Could it be that you don’t have a real position, but only propaganda and activist judges? Yes.)

              1. 15.1.1.2.1.2.1

                Night,

                Respectfully, I’m not going to review the entire history of anti-trust law to make your point for you. If you think some decision(s), presumably pro-business, show that the Supreme Court is a ‘slave,’ it is up to you to explain why.

                1. Go, not really. It is pretty well settled that the SCOTUS changed anti-trust law on their to accommodate multi-national corporations. (I can tell you this is what I was taught in law school.)

                  If you are going to comment on the character of the SCOTUS, it is really up to you to educate yourself on the history of the SCOTUS.

                  And, come on, when a SCOTUS justice starts writing about trolls that are terrorizing our land, we know we are entering judicial activism land.

                2. …at the very least it reflects the saturation of the propaganda (which any objective critically minded person can readily see).

      2. 15.1.2

        NW: You guys have been making fun of me for many years because I said this was coming.

        I’m pretty sure that’s not the reason people have been making fun of you for years.

        there are some preliminary studies on innovation that suggest that the destruction of our patent system is hurting innovation.

        Classic! First, you push to expand patents into areas of knowledge which the system is totally unequipped to handle. The wealthy attorneys and grifters who can smell an opportunity a mile away rush in to the skim the cream and get even richer, as they always do. Then, when the system is on its knees and the absurdity of what’s taken place is evident to everyone, you whine that the solution is (wait for it) more patents that are easier to enforce. Seriously?

        Next you’ll be telling us that we’d all be better off if patent granting was “privatized.”

        the Googles want a different patent system

        News flash: so do a lot of ordinary people who write software, and for very good reasons. The more you focus on “the Googles” and “paid bloggers” and “Obama”, the more obvious it is that you have no clue about what is happening and why. This is why people “make fun of you.” But you’ve been told all this before and nothing seems to matter.

        Keep up the great work.

        1. 15.1.2.1

          Oh come on MM, you can do better than that. Only about 10 ad hominine attacks and 3 red herrings in that response. I guess it is getting towards the end of your workday.

    2. 15.2

      Ned: People who … deny that startups are a source of innovation

      I’m not aware of anyone denying that “startups” (whatever that refers to) are “a source” of innovation.

      if not the only source of innovation

      Startups are just one source of innovation. Any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous.

      Also, patents are just one of many different means for promoting innovation. As you are surely aware, depending on the innovation, patents may not be the best means for promoting or protecting that innovation. On the contrary, they may be the absolute worst means.

      Did you read Big Q and Li’l Steve’s hilarious article on Uber’s absurd valuation, by the way? You can cut the cognitive dissonance with a knife.

      1. 15.2.1

        On big Q and Uber, no, I will take a look.

        You are right that innovation occurs in big companies as in small. It is just that small companies need patents, while many big companies do not. They compete on price, quality and the like. Big Pharma is an exception to this rule.

        It would be helpful, MM, to keep the focus on the problems in patent law, and there are many. Junk patents, ambiguous claims, ambulance chasing litigators, are the problems we can all agree vex the patent system. But crippling the ability of legitimate patent holders to make money off their patents if their startup business goes belly up is not in the best interest of any of us. That is what the patent system is all about. It is there to spur innovation, not to protect vested business arrangements and markets by making it virtually impossible for the small fry to enforce.

        1. 15.2.1.1

          crippling the ability of legitimate patent holders to make money off their patents if their startup business goes belly up is not in the best interest of any of us.

          Seems to me that if a “small business” with a “valuable” patent goes belly up, it’s in “everyone else’s” best interest for the patent to go belly up (or at least be “devalued”) right along with the failed business. That greatly reduces the cost required for more skilled people to step in and practice the teaching in the patent, which in turn should lead to a product/service that is less expensive for consumers, i.e., “everyone else.”

          All this assumes, of course, that the service/product being protected by the patent is a service/product that consumers seek, as opposed to a money-making scheme that solely or primarily benefits only the business/patent owner.

          1. 15.2.1.1.1

            MM, I think you have it backwards.

            The ability to offer an exclusive license may actually be the best way to get new technology to market. Compulsory licensing to all comers is not very attractive as one’s investments in developing products based on the patent are not protected.

      2. 15.2.2

        On Uber, Gene does not seem to be a fan — essentially calling the folks at Uber privateers — of private data.

        I think Gene is dead wrong on this issue.

      3. 15.2.3

        Malcolm and others having cognitive dissonance…?

        Accuse Others Of That Which Malcolm Does

      4. 15.2.4

        On the contrary, they may be the absolute worst means.

        That’s a pretty bold (and rather unsubstantiated) statement.

        Let’s see your “data.”

  6. 14

    Nice write-up on ScotusBlog by Ronald Mann:

    link to scotusblog.com

    Justice Kennedy’s opinion in Commil USA v. Cisco Systems managed to pull off a hard trick: getting a majority of the Justices to ignore the explicit language of an opinion so recent that all of those who signed it are still on the Court.

  7. 13

    J. Newman really bent over backwards in the underlying dissent to make the point that infringement and validity are wholly separate issues. I think Ned’s 7A argument is on her radar . . .

  8. 12

    This decision again highlights the fundamental flaw in the Global Tech decision. Infringement does not require any knowledge of the patent or any degree of bad intent. Knowledge of the patent and intent are relevant only to willfulness.

    Induced infringement only requires intent that the third party commit an act of infringement. The only intent that should be required of the inducer is that it intend the third party to commit an act that is infringing. Knowledge of the patent and intent should not be any more a part of inducement than it is of infringement. The inducer’s knowledge, if any, of the patent should be a factor solely for willfulness.

    The standard for infringement should be consistent regardless of the type of defendant. Increasing the burden of proof for induced infringement creates an unintended burden on patentees seeking to enforce their patents against inducers. Like the single infringer rule, this heightened scienter requirement creates loopholes for infringers to profit from exploiting a patented invention without compensating the inventor or patent holder.

    That is not to say that I disagree with this decision. I agree with the majority position: an incorrect belief in invalidity is not a defense to induced infringement. Infringement and invalidity are wholly different legal questions.

    Finally, once again the “trolls” are being used as an excuse to weaken patents. Trolls are the natural result of more fundamental problems with the patent enforcement systems. It is simply too expensive for many small patentees, whether individuals or small-to-medium size businesses, to enforce their patents against large serial infringers. This devalues those patents to the point that the trolls can purchase them at prices that make the patent assertion business model economically viable.

    1. 12.1

      Scott: .once again the “trolls” are being used as an excuse to weaken patents. Trolls are the natural result of more fundamental problems with the patent enforcement systems.

      Scott, please identify the “fundamental problems” and your proposed solutions. I assume one of the “fundamental problems” you refer to is the granting of patents on information and information-processing logic but perhaps you have other ideas.

      It is simply too expensive for many small patentees

      Are you suggesting that the notorious individuals who have been clapping most loudly for patent expansion over the past decade or two are financially unable to bring a patent lawsuit? I’d love to see your evidence for that.

      trolls can purchase them at prices that make the patent assertion business model economically viable

      This is nonsense. The “patent assertion business model” is “economically viable” because patent assertion entities have nothing to lose except junky patents (which, in many cases, are near expiring) and because our broken patent system presently awards low-level “innovators” who contribute nothing except wordsmithing and dreams of new “functionalities” to the “art fields” (in reality, litigation targets providing actual goods and services) they seek to plunder.

      1. 12.1.1

        I did identify a fundamental problem, the cost of patent enforcement against large entities with deep pockets. Read the comment.

        You obviously don’t have much experience with small entities that operate on shoe string budgets. I don’t know who you’re referring to, but it’s not the small patentees that I’m talking about.

        Are you really trying to imply that patent assertion entities have no risks or costs other than the loss of junk patents? Do they not have legal costs? If they go to trial, do they get their expert witnesses for free?

        Your contempt for the patentees who end up selling their patents is too broad-brushed and in many cases entirely misplaced. Trolls aren’t the only entities with the kind of patents you describe.

        1. 12.1.1.1

          Scott: You obviously don’t have much experience with small entities that operate on shoe string budgets.

          I have run businesses of my own that operate on a shoestring budget for decades. My friends have businesses that operate on a shoestring budget and they’ve managed those businesses for decades. Number of patents applied for: zero.

          I don’t know who you’re referring to

          Really? You aren’t aware of any “little guys” who are, in fact, just bottom feeding patent attorneys trying to “get rich off the Internet”? Seriously? You were born yesterday or something?

          it’s not the small patentees that I’m talking about.

          Immediately upthread you wrote: It is simply too expensive for many small patentees

          Are you really trying to imply that patent assertion entities have no risks or costs other than the loss of junk patents? Do they not have legal costs?

          You must be pulling my leg. You’re kidding, right?

          Trolls aren’t the only entities with the kind of patents you describe.

          No doubt about that. But they are the only entities whose primary (if not sole) source of income is the assertion of those kind of patents. And the kind of patents I’m talking about promote precisely zero “progress” in any technology. Instead, they promote “progress” in litigation tactics and business schemes. Now go ahead and tell me that’s the kind of “progress” that the patent system was designed to promote. Tell me how it’s “discrimination” to suggest that junky patents on information and logic be expunged from the system.

          1. 12.1.1.1.1

            Define “technology” in a non-circular manner.

            Use any type of sentences – as long as you be inte11ectually honest.

      2. 12.1.2

        And your assertion that they “have nothing to lose except junky patents” actually supports my assertion that the patents they obtain are almost completely devalued allowing them to buy them for pennies on the dollar. Not all of the patents they hold are invalid.

        1. 12.1.2.1

          your assertion that they “have nothing to lose except junky patents” actually supports my assertion that the patents they obtain are almost completely devalued

          No, it doesn’t support that assertion at all.

          But please tell everyone: where is your evidence for this “complete devaluation” of valid, eligible patents? What does “complete devaluation” mean? Do you have specific examples and numbers you want to share with everyone?

          I have no trouble admitting that $50 million is a greater number than $50,000 or $10,000. But $10,000 is not “complete devaluation”. In fact, it’s a heck of a lot of money for nearly everyone in the US and a fortune for most of the world’s population. You think the idea of an “app” that “automatically” tells me when a parking space has opened up in the shopping mall is worth more than that? In the 21st century?

          1. 12.1.2.1.1

            It’s worth what the market will bear.

            Don’t like it? Don’t use it.

            Once again the invitation is extended: stop using any form of the innovations that you would deny protection to (the Amish still have a room set aside for you).

    2. 12.2

      Steve, Global-Tech merely followed Aro II, a 5-4 decision where the Supreme Court acknowledged substantial doubt as it was the declared intent of congress not to change the law, but the law they passed seemed to require the decision.

      The Court in Global-Tech said they were not asked to overturn Aro II.

      Why? — it was clearly wrong.

      Now, we have to go to congress to get things fixed. They should listen if the case is present properly and the entire bar gets behind it.

      1. 12.2.1

        Who’s Steve?

        I take it you agree with my underlying point this line of cases being wrong. I hope we can get the reform that is needed.

  9. 11

    Wouldn’t the dissent’s reasoning then also mean that unconstitutional statues cannot be violated, and thus one could not induce/solicit their violation?

  10. 8

    Scalia is correct: “It follows, as night the day, that only valid patents can be infringed. To talk of infringing an invalid patent is to talk nonsense.” Thus, he bases his opinion on a oft-stated maxim that an invalid patent cannot be infringed. Though he might mention policy, his position flows from prior case law.
    The decision, wrong as it is based on precedent, or right as it is based on policy, provides certainty and a good argument in favor of reexams and IPR.

    1. 8.1

      Maxims are often short-hand for larger truths. Once a patent is invalidated, it cannot be infringed because there is nothing to infringe. However, a party’s self-serving belief that a patent should be invalidated is not the same as invalidating it. Scalia’s opinion would conflates infringement with willfulness, an error in the case law that does not need to be extended any further.

      1. 8.1.1

        How can a person have knowledge that certain acts constitute infringement if they believe no valid patent is being infringed? One may argue that in order to have actual knowledge that “the acts constitue infringement” that a court must make that determination and his a defendant does not have that knowledge until after it have been determined by a court. Otherwise I am not sure what it means to have actual knowledge that the alleged acts constitute infringement.

        1. 8.1.1.1

          There is an analogue to trespass, my dear namesake.

          The intent is to the act itself. Did you mean to go on that land? It matters not if you were mistaken as to whose land it was.

          1. 8.1.1.1.1

            Let’s not forget that inducement is holding someone liable who did not actually infringe. For this to be justifiable, courts have (and will continue) to require some form of scienter. Inducement still requires knowledge of a patent.

            So, to complete the analogy, you’d have to know that the land was private property…just, your personal opinion that the deed was faulty in some way isn’t going to save you when your theory is debunked in court.

            1. 8.1.1.1.1.1

              go authur, the scienter required before ’52 was that the inducer instructed the person performing the process or making the infringing combination, article or composition about what and how, etc., or provided, as in Quanta, the very means to perform the patent process.

              Historically, the person charged with inducement did not have to know about the patent. Patent infringement across the board was strict liability.

              Congress did not intend to change the law of infringement when enacting the ’52 act. It intended to codify it.

            2. 8.1.1.1.1.2

              Q: Is the land yours?

              A: no.

              Q: Did you intend to step on the land?

              A: yes.

              Case closed.

  11. 7

    >I may add, however, that if the desirability of the rule we adopt were a proper >consideration, it is by no means clear that the Court’s holding, which increases >the in terrorem power of patent trolls, is preferable. The Court seemingly >acknowledges that consequence in Part III of its opinion.
    >For the foregoing reasons, I respectfully dissent

    So, what evidence does J. Scalia have for “trolls”? This just keeps getting weirder and weirder. A life lesson in the fall of a civilization.

    1. 7.1

      Note to that J. Scalia is saying he is dissenting for public policy reasons based apparently on his own personal assessment that there are patent trolls that are causing terror throughout our land. Keeps getting more and more like the witch trials conducted by the Catholic Priests during the medieval Europe.

      I’d guess that based on this that we can safely wipe out any opinion that Scalia has ever issued regarding patent law.

      1. 7.1.1

        Night: J. Scalia is saying he is dissenting for public policy reasons based apparently on his own personal assessment that there are patent trolls

        Nobody denies the existence of lawyers and their “limited liability” clients” exploiting flaws in our patent system for the purpose of stuffing their bank accounts. It’s impossible for any reasonable person, much less a judge, to ignore the sea changes in patent litigation that took place over the past couple decades.

        More importantly, however, Scalia’s statement is more nuanced than you give him credit for.* He is not saying that he is “dissenting for policy reasons”. Rather, he is saying that if the majority wants to rely on policy to reach their holding, they should do a better job of explaining why those policy considerations weigh in favor of the bad actors that are polluting the patent system as opposed to the actors who induce the “infringement” of a junk claim that should never have been granted in the first place.

        *The quote at issue here: “[I]f the desirability of the rule we adopt were a proper consideration, it is by no means clear that the Court’sholding, which increases the in terrorem power of patent trolls, is preferable.”]

        1. 7.1.1.1

          Thank you, MM. While you troll a little too hard, you are absolutely correct here. I fear that you may have fallen prey to Night Writer’s own pioneering troll work, because he is not so stupid as to actually be unable to read and comprehend a 2-page dissent.

        2. 7.1.1.2

          >Nobody denies
          Except the OMB that said there was no tro11 problem. (Yes, it was cute the way you said no one denies that at least one person abuses the system, but we all know what you were up to.)

          >More importantly

          First, I’ll note that you quote a smaller portion of Scalia than I do and yet act as if you have created a definitive quote. You don’t even mention it is the same text that I quoted.

          You are quite wrong about what Scalia is saying. He is saying pretty clearly that for policy reasons he wants to cripple the patent system. He would not have used the language he did if that were not the case. Moreover, the structure of his argument is to try and reduce the majority’s opinion to public policy regarding good faith belief that the patent is invalid, when the majority did not decide the issue on public policy as Scalia would have liked to. Not sure I really feel like going through this with someone like you.

          But, please go ahead and fog things up some more.

          By the way, on a different topic of your continued nonsense.

          link to coursera.org

          Gee, a whole college course from a respected Professor at a respected university. Gee, I guess what people are saying is that this information processing stuff is going places and continuing to develop. Your arguments that we could all call your aunt look sillier and sillier.

          By the way, on another topic

          1. 7.1.1.2.1

            I meant to say this is a whole college class on recommendations. MM for years used this as his example of junk information processing machines. He often said that his aunt would do a better job, although he never did give me her number.

          2. 7.1.1.2.2

            NW: You are quite wrong about what Scalia is saying. He is saying pretty clearly that for policy reasons he wants to cripple the patent system.

            Okay. Run with that if that makes you feel good.

            [shrugs]

            1. 7.1.1.2.2.1

              MM merely ignores the substance of my post and take a cheap shot. What a surprise. MM, the only one that runs away on this blog is you.

              1. 7.1.1.2.2.1.1

                this is a whole college class on recommendations

                I took a “whole college class” on human psychology. It was a useful class.

                Is this “whole college class” thing your entire argument or is there more to it?

                Anyone who believes that patents on “methods of recommending stuff” are necessary or even helpful to promote progress in “methods of recommending stuff” is deluded. Might as well just hand out patents on “new” methods of informing people that you love them or methods of “determining” your own satisfaction. After all, if you’re going to go off the rails, might as well go right over the cliff. Wheee! Look at all that “progress”!

                1. Really. So, what is it about a machine that provides recommendations is it that makes it patent ineligible in your opinion?

                  Gee, this seems like pretty hard stuff and also appears to be very valuable to companies like Amazon.

                  But, again, we just hear nonsense from you. A machine that recommends better than your aunt (I am still waiting for her telephone number).

                  Wow, doing what people do with a machine.

                2. And, by the way, can you tell us the difference between your psychology class and this computer science/EE classs on recommendations?

                  Well, here’s a hint. The recommendation class is a class about building machines. Machines that do the work that human brains are doing now, but often a better job.

                  But, then a real discussion with you is not possible.

        3. 7.1.1.3

          e existence of lawyers and their “limited liability” clients” exploiting flaws in our patent system for the purpose of stuffing their bank accounts. It’s impossible for any reasonable person, much less a judge, to ignore the sea changes in patent litigation that took place over the past couple decades.

          What a bunch of unmitigated hooey – two important (and oft pointed out yet eyes clenched tight to not see):

          The objective government report (not the White House propaganda piece) that showed that the so called “Tr011” problem is not the major player.

          The proper norming of patent law suits against possible patent claims that could be brought. In all likelihood, the properly normed rate shows that there has NOT been an explosion at all – and likely is far less than historical trends.

          The Ohnoes Sky is Falling is brought to you by the same anti-patent forces that coined the term “patent tr011” in the first place. Hint: it was Big Corp and it was NOT for the benefit of anything except their profits.

  12. 6

    In other words, even if the defendant
    reads the patent’s claims differently from the plaintiff, and
    that reading is reasonable, he would still be liable because
    he knew the acts might infringe. Global-Tech requires
    more. It requires proof the defendant knew the acts were
    infringing.

    It appears that noninfringement position must be reasonable to avoid liability. Given how easy it is to get a “professional” opinion of noninfringement, this seems to all but kill inducement infringement to the extent that there exists “professional” patent law firms willing to provide their “professional” services.

    I think the government position was quite correct that knowledge of the patent should have been enough. I think it is high time that we think about a legislative fix here to overturn both Aro II and Global-Tech. Infringement is strict liability all the way. Whether one knows he or she is infringing should only affect increased damages. That’s how it should be and that’s how it used to be prior to 1952.

    1. 6.1

      I think it is high time that we think about a legislative fix here to overturn both Aro II and Global-Tech. Infringement is strict liability all the way.

      Agreed. If someone believes that they might be infringing a patent that may be invalid, it puts the onus on them to take some action – initiate an IPR, file for declaratory judgment, etc. – rather than just getting a noninfringement opinion and proceeding as if the patent didn’t exist.

      1. 6.1.1

        If someone believes that they might be infringing a patent that may be invalid, it puts the onus on them to take some action – initiate an IPR, file for declaratory judgment, etc. – rather than just getting a noninfringement opinion and proceeding as if the patent didn’t exist.

        Or, once you know the patent is invalid or ineligible junk (and it’s not terribly difficult to make that determination in many instances), just proceed as if the patent is invalid/ineligible junk, wait for the patentee to threaten with the junk patent, tell the patentee in a nutshell why the patent is ridiculous junk and inform the patentee they’ll be paying all your legal fees unless they figure out a way to fix the junk patent.

        In other words: “onus this.”

        Rather than complain about Aro II and Global-Tech, patentees who have a problem with this should consider doing everything in their power to ensure that the claims being granted by the PTO are, in fact, valid and eligible. In most instances today that process starts with (1) understanding what subject matter eligibility means (some people have a reaally hard time with that) and (2) understanding the simple fact that when you claim logic using non-physical descriptions then the entire universe of logical operations exists as prior art against you, unlimited by “technical” considerations.

        Enjoy the onus.

        1. 6.1.1.1

          …and the “issue” of wanting a particular optional claim format inserted as the only “real” legal option returns…

          (Not to mention the rampant bias against today’s leading form of innovation open to the most people – not needing a “but for” reason for patents…

          Didn’t we just cover these points? Yes, Virginia, this is nothing more than the typical drive-by monologuing from Malcolm.

    2. 6.2

      Re: “Given how easy it is to get a “professional” opinion of non-infringement.” ?? A formal opinion from a major firm that is not full of qualifications to protect them against a serious danger of a malpractice suit from a client that is found to infringe ??
      [They should be advertising that service, because it is much in demand.]

    3. 6.3

      Ned: Given how easy it is to get a “professional” opinion of noninfringement

      I agree that it isn’t difficult to get a reasonably-relied-upon professional opinion of non-infringement when, in fact, there is no infringement.

      But it’s not at all “easy” when the opposite is true, i.e., when there is infringement. Given that, I don’t see where some “gaping loophole” has been created by these recent Supreme Court decisions. Rather, a defendant-expanding halo around the induced infringement law has been shrunk and fairly so.

      Unreasonable reliance on some hastily scribbled derriere-covering opinion (typically one created after infringement of the patent has been noticed) is not going to protect defendants who induce infringement, just as it will not protect willful direct infringers.

      1. 6.3.1

        MM, hopefully there will be sanctions for some A-hole defendants to seek to avoid liability by relying on such wh * red opinions that are so easily rendered.

        But until that day has come, I do not share your sanguinity.

    4. 6.4

      Cisco sells equipment the operation of which infringes Commil’s WiFi method patent. There may be millions of Cisco customers who directly infringe. But today, with this ruling, Cisco can avoid liability by having a private belief in non infringement forcing a patent owner to sue each and every Cisco customer. But the whole point of being able to sue the contributory infringer or inducer was to pin the liability on the party responsible for the infringement, not the direct infringer who may be entirely innocent, as here.

      The result here bizarre and beyond unreasonable.

      What are patent owners to do now? Bring class actions? Can the class action include Cisco when Cisco has separate non infringement defense that is not common to the class?

      The crippling of contributory and inducement infringement by the Supreme Court since Aro II has become an obscene joke. They are topped by an even more extremist Federal Circuit who seem to bend over backwards to coddle infringers. I hope the injustice of this is apparent for all to see.

      How does this impact the reform bills pending in congress that seek to move litigation away from the end user to companies like Cisco. Is this even constitutional, a denial of due process, when the likes of Cisco have an separate defense that the direct infringer does not have?

      1. 6.4.1

        But today, with this ruling, Cisco can avoid liability by having a private belief in non infringement forcing a patent owner to sue each and every Cisco customer.

        Or, the patent owner could sue exactly one Cisco customer, and win on the merits, after which it would be difficult for Cisco to reasonably rely on its “private belief,” wouldn’t it?

        1. 6.4.1.1

          DanH, I don’t think that is how it works. It is not a question of whether there is direct infringement or not, it is a question of whether Cisco’s non infringement position is reasonable.

          Now if Cisco believes that the first court got claim construction wrong on a particular issue, and that position is reasonable, it STILL may be able to avoid liability after the patent owner conducts a successive cases against a direct infringer.

          Then there is the issue of damages. Assume notice or a method claim so that is not an issue. When does Cisco become liable — when the case against the direct infringer is final. That could cost the patent owner years, many, many years, of damages.

          But now we have the practice of staying the customer suit in favor of the manufacturer suit — and a pending statute to make it mandatory. How is this even fair to the patent owner if the manufacturer relies on its private belief to avoid liability? All that litigation against a manufacturer for naught, when the patent owner never sued them in the first place?

          1. 6.4.1.1.1

            And, bye the way, just how are we going to allege, let alone prove, as a matter of liability, that a contributory or inducer “knew” that he or she is was infringing a patent where a reasonable position on non infringement excuses liability? Is this a “reasonable patent attorney” test? Are we going to have to have “opinions” by patent attorneys on file prior to filing suit stating that there is no reasonable position that there is no direct infringement?

      2. 6.4.2

        Cisco can avoid liability by having a reasonable private belief in non infringement

        Fixed it for you. Words are important things. Don’t go making the same mistake the Fed Cir in Nautilus did.

        1. 6.4.2.1

          Random, I think it is also important to know who has the burden of proof here. It is a patent owner – it is he who has to prove that the likes of Cisco knew that they were infringing a patent. All Cisco has to do to avoid liability is raise a reasonable claim construction dispute. In almost every litigation that I have ever been a part of, every defendant has been able to raise a reasonable claim construction dispute. Every… Single… One.

          I don’t see how anyone henceforth can prove contributory or inducement infringement. It will be literally impossible. Why even bother, particularly if one can be sanctioned and have attorneys fees awarded against him if there is a loss. The position of the patent owner now is so unreasonable as to make lawsuits against anybody but a direct infringer with a slamdunk case a fools errand.

          People will soon figure this out, and hopefully soon, and will demand from Congress a fix if they really believe that we have to have a patent system in this country. Alternatively, the patent system is all but wrecked.

          1. 6.4.2.1.1

            They may all be able to raise a reasonable claim construction dispute, but that doesn’t mean it one that goes to the question of infringement (instead they are a question of validity).

            1. 6.4.2.1.1.1

              anon, take my word for it, almost all of claim construction disputes in court are about infringement.

    5. 6.5

      Gotta love this from the IPO brief:

      “As a direct result of Commil, potential
      infringers now routinely obtain opinions of counsel
      … because such opinions
      present an ironclad defense to inducement, regardless
      of the opinion’s accuracy. The end result is that virtually
      all potential infringers can easily absolve themselves of
      liability for inducing infringement of a valid patent for the
      price of an opinion letter from counsel.”

      The AIPLA is to the same effect.

  13. 5

    The logical response to this decision for someone accused of inducing infringement, if they have go prior art is to promptly present it in an IPR and try to get a stay of the suit, since even a good O.C. invalidity O.C. opinion is no longer a defense, and the odds of a jury finding the patent invalid when the defendant knew it was infringing would seem even worse than usual versus an IPR?

    1. 5.1

      Paul, the logical response seems to be to get a “professional” opinion of noninfringement. All they have to have is a reasonable position here to avoid liability. Most “professional” patent firms can come up with something that sounds reasonable.

      Given the gigantic loophole that the Supreme Court just created, we may never see again a case holding anyone liable for inducement infringement.

      1. 5.1.1

        The logical response would be for patent applicants to draft clearer claims that don’t allow for “reasonable” differences in opinion as to what exactly is being claimed.

        This is a good thing.

        1. 5.1.1.1

          Jane: The logical response would be for patent applicants to draft clearer claims that don’t allow for “reasonable” differences in opinion as to what exactly is being claimed.

          True enough. The decision also highlights the importance of the PTO reading claims as broadly as reasonably possible and requiring applicants to specify in every instance of reasonable ambiguity (1) what embodiments of a term are covered and what are not and (2) where in the specification support for that distinction can be found (3) why the claim should not be amended to expressly recite those distinctions.

        2. 5.1.1.2

          Jane, good observation, that — and my advice to clients even prior to this case.

        3. 5.1.1.3

          I agree with you in principle, Jane, but I think this is quite difficult to do in reality. I find it hard enough to take complex ideas and convert them into claim language. To add also the burden of attempting to write claim language such that the language can only be construed one way is going to be quite difficult. It may even be impossible, as multiple people (particularly on opposite sides of litigation) can construe the same language in different ways, regardless of whether you believe your claim language should be read a particular, singular way.

          In short, while it’s admirable to attempt to have clearer claim language, claim language is imperfect by nature and it’s likely not possible to devise claim language that can only be interpreted in one way.

          1. 5.1.1.3.1

            PatentBob, no doubt drafting clear claims is difficult. But there are many patent attorneys who truly try to draft ambiguous claims to provide wiggle room where necessary to avoid prior art or to prove infringement. The nose of wax problem was denounced by the Supreme Court back in the 1800’s.

            Unless and until congress overrules Aro II, patent attorneys who do not draft clear claims are not doing their clients good service. It might be nice if we competed among ourselves not simply on cost, but on quality, where quality would mean something other than hiding the invention in a fog of ambiguity.

            “We think it proper to reiterate our disapprobation of these ingenious attempts to 472*472 expand a simple invention of a distinct device into an all-embracing claim, calculated by its wide generalizations and ambiguous language to discourage further invention in the same department of industry and to cover antecedent inventions. Without deciding that a repetition of substantially the same claim in different words will vitiate a patent, we hold that where a specification by ambiguity and a needless multiplication of nebulous claims is calculated to deceive and mislead the public, the patent is void.”

            Carlton v. Bokee, 84 U.S. 463, 472 (1872). link to scholar.google.com

        4. 5.1.1.4

          Jane, that is a noble goal, but there is apparently a large disconnect between the case law studies of many patent scriveners vis a vis patent litigators.*
          [Plus, there are practical incentives to continue to obtain ambiguous claim elements, and there are many ambiguities claim drafters or examiners are not even aware of at the time.]

          *”Exhibit A” is thousands of patents that were still being written with ONLY “means function” claims for years after Fed. Cir. decisions had made it perfectly clear that those were narrow claims, and that those patents had increased 112 requirements for their claimed “means.”

        5. 5.1.1.5

          clearer claims

          As Paul points out, this is easier said than done.

          To wit, when the anti-patentists such as Malcolm so willingly bludgeon words like “laminate” (and then turn around and refuse to “un-laminate” [verb] the layers of his own closed eyes), one can easily see (if one is willing to learn) how easily the system is gamed by the Infringer’s Rights camp.

          To deny the existence of an Infringer’s Rights camp is to court a complete lack of credibility.

  14. 4

    A victory for patent trolls at the Supreme Court! The pendulum is swinging back! Wheee!

    Or just another call from the highest Court to the lower court’s to stop being so miserly with the Rule 11 sanctions.

    The Opinion includes a nice, concise dissent from Scalia (joined by Roberts) demonstrating that at least a few members of the Supreme Court always manage to keep sight of the fundamentals. It may not always be the same fundamentals but overall the Supremes do seem to “get it” far more often than the Federal Circuit.

    It follows, as night the day, that only valid patents can be infringed. To talk of infringing an invalid patent is to talk nonsense….

    The Court … insists that permitting the defense at issue would undermine the statutory presumption of validity. Ante, at 10–11. It would do no such thing. Byreason of the statutory presumption of validity, §282(a), patents can be held invalid only by “clear and convincing evidence.” Microsoft Corp. v. i4i Ltd. Partnership, 564 U. S. ___, ___ (2011) (slip op., at 1). This presumption is not weakened by treating a good-faith belief in invalidity as a defense to induced infringement.

    Understanding this last part is key because the “presumption of validity” is the excuse that the junk patent-wielding bottom-feeders and trolls use to justify their behavior as non-frivolous. After all, they tell us endlessly, if an issued patent “presumed valid” than how can asserting the patent ever be deemed frivolous? Especially when the junk patentee and its attorneys were all born yesterday, as seems to be the case 99% of the time.

    1. 4.1

      Malcolm, given that it is so easy to get a noninfringement opinion, this all but kills inducement infringement except for those people who are willfully blind as in Global Tech.

      Regardless of your position on trolls, this Supreme Court opinion so severely undermines patent law that we need to consider, in my opinion, a legislative fix.

      That there were 2 justices willing to go further to me is dismaying.

  15. 3

    I love this statement from the dissent:

    “That brings me to the Court’s weakest argument: that there are “practical reasons not to create a defense based on a good-faith belief in invalidity.” Ante, at 12 (emphasis added); see also ibid. (“Creating a defense of belief in invalidity, furthermore, would have negative consequences”(emphasis added)). Ours is not a common-law court. Erie R. Co. v. Tompkins, 304 U. S. 64, 78 (1938). We do not, or at least should not, create defenses to statutory liability—and that is not what this dissent purports to do. Our task is to interpret the Patent Act, and to decidewhether it makes a good-faith belief in a patent’s invalidity a defense to induced infringement.”

    Oh, I see, THAT explains what they did in Prometheus, Myriad and Alice. They just interpreted the statute. And here I thought they interpolated into 101 requirements that simply aren’t there. Silly me.

    1. 3.1

      Oh, I see, THAT explains what they did in Prometheus, Myriad and Alice. They just interpreted the statute. And here I thought they interpolated into 101 requirements that simply aren’t there. Silly me.

      The statutes have a pre-52 history. That’s why 102 states “known or used by others” but means “known or used by the public by others”.

      1. 3.1.1

        Random, didn’t we discover that the courts have required that at least one person must know how to make the invention? Thus, known or used means known “and” used. Public seems to require at least a person other than an inventor know of the invention. That seems an implicit in Prometheus. Thus, in only an inventor knows about an invention, the knowledge is not really public.

          1. 3.1.1.1.1

            Have you refreshed your understanding of the AIA by integrating The Soliloquy yet Ned?

            Pennock – or at least your “version” of it requires an update of understanding. Try reading the case again in light of Golan v Holder and the Court’s allocation of authority there.

            1. 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Lemley, Mark A. “Does’ Public Use’Mean the Same Thing It Did Last Year?.” (2014). link to law.berkeley.edu

              Lemely shows that Armitage wanted to entirely delete on sale from the statutes, but could not. He manufactured that soliloquy to override the amendment putting on sale back in.

              Armitage will not get away with this.

              1. 3.1.1.1.1.1.1

                The Soluloquy was not by Armitage, but rather by the sponsor of the legislation and is a critical part of the legislative record.

                Your “protest” is simply moot from the start.

                1. The drafter is a meaningless smokescreen Ned.

                  Who said it.
                  When it was said.
                  The actual import of these are the things that are critical.

                  Why is it that you refuse to recognize these critical things?

                  As I have tried to instruct you: your reading of Pennock needs a serious recalibration in light of Golan and The Soliloquy.

                  What you are attempting to do is deny the reality of what has objectively happened because your world view is simply not supported by this reality.

                  Unclench your eyes son.

        1. 3.1.1.2

          Random, didn’t we discover that the courts have required that at least one person must know how to make the invention? Thus, known or used means known “and” used.

          I spent a day researching it and concluded that the ’52 act adopted the appellate test of “publicly” despite the Supreme Court never overruling what they did. One of the notes in the ’52 act specifically mentions the intent to incorporate a public test.

          1. 3.1.1.2.1

            A whole day you spent, now did you?

            Sorry Random, but your views on the Act of 1952 (for example, in regards to 35 USC 112, or the notes to 35 USC 103) cast your conclusions into a rather dubious light of not being able to escape your pre-ordained Belieb system.

            1. 3.1.1.2.1.1

              A whole day you spent, now did you?

              Oh anon, it’s clear you haven’t spent a whole day’s worth of reading since we started having discussions.

              your pre-ordained Belieb system.

              Which would be so dangerous if I didn’t Belieb the same way the Supreme Court Beliebs. This is the part where I direct you toward the Scoreboard.

  16. 2

    The most important (and potentially most dangerous) part of this case was Commil’s and the government’s attempt to lower the mental state needed to induce infringement, that is, to abolish Global-Tech’s requirement that the accused inducer knows that “the induced acts constitute patent infringement.” Fortunately, the Court rejected this argument:

    “Accepting the Government and Commil’s argument
    would require this Court to depart from its prior holding.
    See id., at ___ (slip op., at 10). See also id., at ___
    (KENNEDY, J., dissenting) (slip op., at 1) (“The Court is
    correct, in my view, to conclude that . . . to induce infringement
    a defendant must know the acts constitute
    patent infringement” (internal quotation marks omitted)).
    And the Global-Tech rationale is sound. Qualifying or
    limiting its holding, as the Government and Commil seek
    to do, would lead to the conclusion, both in inducement
    and contributory infringement cases, that a person, or
    entity, could be liable even though he did not know the
    acts were infringing. In other words, even if the defendant
    reads the patent’s claims differently from the plaintiff, and
    that reading is reasonable, he would still be liable because
    he knew the acts might infringe. Global-Tech requires
    more. It requires proof the defendant knew the acts were
    infringing. And the Court’s opinion was clear in rejecting
    any lesser mental state as the standard. Id., at ___ (slip
    op., at 13–14).”

    1. 2.1

      IMO, this will be the most commonly cited part of this opinion going forward. I for one am looking forward to some future arguments about the unreasonableness or “willful blindness” of a defendant’s non-infringement positions.

    2. 2.2

      Once upon a time, all infringement was strict liability. What is new and dangerous to patent law is that private beliefs can excuse liability.

      That is what is dangerous.

  17. 1

    Sadly, the “every wrong must have a remedy” crowd wins out over common sense.

    “Infringing a patent means invading a patentee’s exclusive right to practice his claimed invention. Only valid patents confer this right to exclusivity—invalid patents do not. It follows, as night the day, that only valid patents can be infringed. To talk of infringing an invalid patent is to talk nonsense.

    “Induced infringement, we have said, ‘requires knowledge that the induced acts constitute patent infringement.’ Global-Tech Appliances, Inc. v. SEB S. A., 563 U. S. ___, ___ (2011) (slip op., at 10). Because only valid patents can be infringed, anyone with a good-faith belief in a patent’s invalidity necessarily believes the patent cannot be infringed. And it is impossible for anyone who believes that a patent cannot be infringed to induce actions that he knows will infringe it.”

    (Scalia, J., dissenting).

    1. 1.1

      What makes sense is the one who causes the infringement should be liable.

      You have in court the direct infringer and his inducer. The direct infringer is held liable. The inducer is let off because of his private belief.

      Is this even remotely fair and reasonable?

      No. Emphatically, No.

      1. 1.1.1

        The question you meant to ask was, “Is that the outcome mandated by the Patent Act?” The answer is “Yes, emphatically yes.” Patent infringement is a creature of statute, not fairness. And that is precisely where the “every wrong must have a remedy” crowd and the Court have gone off the rails. Infringement is strict liability; Inducement requires specific intent. So if the alleged inducer isn’t a direct infringer and doesn’t believe he’s an inducer, then he’s not an infringer. If you want to change that, congress is the place to do it.

        1. 1.1.1.1

          Mr. Insignficant, may I be so bold as to ask you to read footnotes 6 and 8 of Aro II. link to scholar.google.com

          There is more than substantial doubt that the congress intended to do more than to simply codify the law of contributory and inducement infringement. Certainly, it was NOT the intention of Judge Rich, the initial drafter and promoter of 271(a)-(d), to limit the law of contributory infringement in any substantial way.

          Your assumption about the intent of congress is contrary to the expressed intent of congress.

          1. 1.1.1.1.2

            Ned, You may question what Congress intended, but there is no doubt what the law requires. I’ll see your dicta and raise you Scalia and Robert’s dissent.

            Since we’re playing the fool’s game of divining congressional intent, was it congress’s intent that there be no difference between the intent required to infringe under any of the provisions of section 271? And whose intent is it that actually matters? Is it the guy who drafted the law, the sponsors who supported the law in the chamber, the bureaucrats who marked up the law, or the elected legislators who actually voted for it? If the latter, what if their intent was not uniform? Must we go back in time to poll them as to the intent of the majority of those voting “yea”?

            1. 1.1.1.1.2.1

              ID, the statutes are amenable to both interpretations. Only one did not change the law, and THAT was the declared intention of congress, not to change the law.

    2. 1.2

      Where the sole basis for a good-faith belief that one isn’t infringing is because the patent is believed to be invalid, that belief is contradicted by the presumption of validity. If you really believe that the patent is invalid, then the proper procedure is to prove it in court.

      As I’ve said before, though, the presumption of validity is a joke that completely ignores how the sausages are made.

      1. 1.2.1

        Your second paragraph stands in sharp contrast to your first (which is a reasonable and objective view of the law as written by Congress).

        What’s up with that?

        1. 1.2.1.1

          Well, when it comes to interpreting the law, the Supreme Court has to work with the law that’s before them, and the statute makes no bones about there being a presumption of validity for issued patents. My first paragraph reflects the finding that I thought the Supreme Court should have reached in this case, strictly on that basis.

          Of course, Congress gets to take into consideration a much wider view of public policy and the reality underlying the quality of issued patents, and so my second paragraph reflects my opinion on what Congress might want to think about. (Not that they’re listening to me, of course!)

          1. 1.2.1.1.1

            I appreciate your opinion, Apotu, but even more so I appreciate your recognition of what the law is and which branch of the government has been authorized to write such controlling law.

            So even though I disagree with your desired ends (perhaps), I applaud your recognition of the appropriate means. If I remember correctly, you are an examiner – and here you show more appreciation for the Rule of Law than many professed attorneys and academia.

            1. 1.2.1.1.1.1

              If you ask me, I think the executive branch has taken far too many liberties with the law as of late, even in situations where it’s done with the best of intentions. The recent ruling out of the 5th Circuit on DAPA is a good example – while I favor a liberalized immigration policy, this really has to be done by Congress, not by executive fiat. At times, it seems like the determining factor for the current administration’s executive actions is whether anyone is likely to have standing to challenge them in court.

              But I’m straying from the topic here….

              1. 1.2.1.1.1.1.1

                Not straying, APoTu. What happened in the case you cited was that the government issued substantive regulations without providing the required notice and opportunity be heard through publications of the proposed regulations in the Federal Register.

                Then there is a whole question of whether the administration even had the authority to impose regulations that had the effect of overruling statutes.

                If I recall correctly, back when the PTO tried to impose substantive rules on new continuations, etc., at least the PTO published the regulations for comment in the Federal Register.

                1. I SAWs what you did there Ned (missed a whole bundle of actions not nearly as famous as the Tafas Office debacle, but every bit (if not more so) shady.

                2. That’s funny Ned, as I have never wavered on Tafas, so does that mean that you are finally catching up to speed? If I recall correctly you didn’t even know the posture of the case two years after it had been completed.

    3. 1.3

      sec 271 is a statute dealing with infringement. a statute describing forbidden acts that infringe presupposes a valid patent. what the USSC is trying to say is that once the patent is held valid for the direct infringement prong the issue of invalidity is foreclosed for sec 271(b) and (c) . “The statement that an invalid patent can not be infringed is a nonsense statement.” G. Rich, Judge

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