Patently-O Bits and Bytes by Juvan Bonni

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46 thoughts on “Patently-O Bits and Bytes by Juvan Bonni

  1. 2

    WaPo is reporting that the PTO rejected a Trump organization trademark application for “telerally”.

    1. 2.1

      As descriptive?

    1. 1.1

      The reality is that what the USPTO should do is reduce fees and reduce the salary of every employee by 25%.

      The reality is that salaries in the private sector have been falling and that now the USPTO salaries reflect pre-AIA and Alice/Mayo salaries.

      The USA has become so dysfunctional. The federal government is like some kind of giant monopolistic corporation that will strip you of everything you have. The USPTO cannot justify these outlandish salaries in the face of an 80 percent reduction in the value of a patent. The other IP site had an article on the value of patents recently and it is getting to be pretty well documented that patent value has fallen 80 percent.

      Cut the fees and the salaries. That is what should happen. Probably lay off 10 percent of the people too.

      1. 1.1.1

        … and the exodus of those people with skills (and can exit) will leave behind an even greater concentration of the likes of Ben and Random…

        Be careful of what you wish for.

      2. 1.1.2

        One problem with a pay reduction is that there’ll never be an increase if things get better for the patent production industry. The examiner special pay rate hasn’t been changed for years, nibbling away at its value. Soon Examiners will be making the same as equivalent general schedule workers in DC. If instead of a one time decrease, Examiner salary was pegged at some fraction of average practicioner salary, that would be at least be a reasonable change.

        An even worse problem with your suggestion is the across-the-board thing. Why should IT staffers or office managers have their pay reflect an unrelated professions pay rates? These people could just move to another agency and keep their salary.

        1. 1.1.2.1

          there’ll never be an increase if things get better for the patent production industry. The examiner special pay rate hasn’t been changed for years, nibbling away at its value.

          Sounds like you need a better union.

          1. 1.1.2.1.1

            Those remaining who do not ignore Snowflake (aka “anon”) should not respond or “engage” with him until he reveals who pays him “20 bucks a pop.”

            1. 1.1.2.1.1.1

              Physician, heal thyself

              1. 1.1.2.1.1.1.1

                Given the results of not one, but two crawls this year, and the fact that my pal Shifty’s obsess10n rate is over 98% of all of his comments are to or about me (with well over 400 comments), do you really think that Shifty can be ‘healed?’

              2. 1.1.2.1.1.1.2

                It took some effort, but he finally admitted he’s paid to post. Now he’s trying to sell this thing about “colleagues” paying him.

                1. Lol – you attempt to spin this as if it was through some diligence of yours that this was “uncovered.”

                  You could not be further from the truth.

                  I was directly forthcoming not only on the ‘what,’ but more importantly, on the ‘why.’

                  The question of the moment: will my pal Shifty own his control of the ‘why?’

                2. I do not understand your question.

                  The details pertaining to the answer to the question of why are critical here.

                  Those are details that YOU control.

                  Are you insinuating that you are now an NPE? Is that what you call yourself after retiring from the patent office?

                3. That’s great that the plural you that you like to use understands, my pal with the Shifty historical pseudonyms.

                  I bet that there’s a lot going on in your mind that ONLY that plural you understands.

                  How about those details of why, though – do you understand those as well?

                  How about emoticons? Do you understand those too?

                  If you did, then you would understand why is not vague, as you want to suggest.

                4. Didja ever notice, Snowflake, that just about everybody has learned to just ignore you and your nonsense?

                  Not a rhetorical question.

                5. I have no doubt that most all see YOUR obsess10n with me and skip right over the nonsense that you attempt, given that the result has always been the same: I have the last and best word.

                  But you should have no doubt that it is your obsess10n and your dross that ‘drowns’ the comments of late.

                  You have what, some TWO comments out of 120plus over the last SIX weeks that have even attempted to NOT be directed to or about me?

                  That’s better than 98% of YOUR posts that you would have been better off never making.

                  No one else EVER on this forum has had such an obsessive fan as I have with you.

      3. 1.1.3

        Actually, a tiny version of what you’re asking for is slowly happening. With the adjustments to count values, high-tech examiners will see 5%-ish reductions in how much credit their get for work. Same pay for more work is effectively a pay cut.

        1. 1.1.3.1

          Look at the filing numbers. The PTO is probably trying to avoid letting people go.

          1. 1.1.3.1.1

            Well, the silver lining is that the backlog should be wiped out.

          2. 1.1.3.1.2

            The expectancy adjustments were announced back in 2018, so I doubt they created those adjustments to avoid letting people go due to a drop in filings during 2020.

          3. 1.1.3.1.3

            Also, they hired 250 examiners in July.

            1. 1.1.3.1.3.1

              Hiring alone is but half the picture and rather meaningless.

              What has attrition been like?

              1. 1.1.3.1.3.1.1

                Depends on the TC, but the latest report on the PTO website ranges from 0.7% in TC2600 to 5.1% in TC3700. Total number of examiners is up about 100 for the FY.

      4. 1.1.4

        “The reality is that what the USPTO should do is reduce fees and reduce the salary of every employee by 25%.”

        Respectfully disagree Night.

        What we all most assuredly don’t need is even more Examiners for whom English is a second language.

        Which is exactly what we’d have if salaries were reduced.

        1. 1.1.4.1

          Reduced fees (except for IPRs & PGRs — which should be at least doubled) are, of course, always welcome.

      5. 1.1.5

        This is a huge overreaction to filings being down less than 2% between FY19 and FY20.

        1. 1.1.5.1

          +1

      6. 1.1.6

        “The reality is that salaries in the private sector have been falling and that now the USPTO salaries reflect pre-AIA and Alice/Mayo salaries.”

        So how much has your salary dropped since 2014, NW?

        1. 1.1.6.1

          Lol – you want private sector wages?

          Maybe join the private sector.

      7. 1.1.7

        I do not understand how your conclusion follows from your premise here. The figures that you link show that total filings at the USPTO are basically steady since 2015. Why, then, should the size of the examiner corps change one way or the other. If the total number of apps to be examined is holding steady, presumably the number of examiners needed to handle those apps should also hold steady. The relative value of those apps or the salaries of other practitioners in this industry are irrelevant considerations to the USPTO’s examiner staffing needs.

        1. 1.1.7.1

          “The relative value of those apps or the salaries of other practitioners in this industry are irrelevant considerations to the USPTO’s examiner staffing needs.”

          I think the special pay rate for examiners is in part justified by the PTO based on the compensation of similar* private industry jobs, specifically patent practicioners. If patent practitioner salaries actually dropped by half, it would probably result in adjustments.

          *I am not asserting that an Examiner’a job is equivalent to a practicioner’s job. I know it is not. But from 30,000 ft, they look similar to the shambling mound that is our government.

          1. 1.1.7.1.1

            I have never seen any such justifications or even hints of such justifications.

            Where have you seen this, Ben?

            1. 1.1.7.1.1.1

              Are you talking to yourself again, Snowflake? If a tree falls in the forest and no one can hear, do you still get paid your 20 bucks?

              1. 1.1.7.1.1.1.1

                Your question about a tree is not connected to the enterprise set up to take advantage of your obsess10n with me and your choices of how you post in varying manners of inanity.

                Is there a reason why you are trying so hard to ignore how your choices drive my enterprise?

                1. Another false assertion.

                  It is quite evident from your own posting that you are hanging on every post that I write.

                  Heck, we even have you going after other’s who happen to use “Anon” that are clearly not me.

                  It’s hilarious that you seem unable to understand how outmaneuvered you are.

                2. The false assertion that I am somehow talking to myself is belied by the plain fact that YOU hang on every post I make.

                  Your own obsess10n defeats your attempted meme.

                  Beep beep.

                3. Once again, Ladies and Gentlemen, Snowflake will prove to all that he is so not totally obsessed with me by not responding to this post.

                4. And once again, you misunderstand what obsess10n is indicated by.

                  I respond to tons of posts by tons of people on tons of topics.

                  On the other hand, you show your obsess10n by having a greater than 98% focus of ALL of your posts directed to or about me.

                  Don’t confuse my ability with having both the best and last word with obsession with you.

          2. 1.1.7.1.2

            The special pay rate has nothing to do with “practitioners.” Examiners were paid more so as to be competitive with engineering and natural science salaries in the private sector.

            Before the special pay rates, the guv’mt made the working level for examiner’s GS-14, which was unheard-of for non-supervisory positions, when Sputnik showed that the US was technically behind the Soviets.

            1. 1.1.7.1.2.1

              Wow – congrats – you have broken your formidable string of directed to or about me, and have actually engaged another person on these threads.

              That you did this first, and then decided to come back nearly and hour and a half later and re-0bsess on me (with my engaging the same person with roughly the same point, although sharing YOUR breadcrumbs of your pre-retirement connections), only goes to show that you have truly become 0bsessed with me.

              In the waning chapters of your otherwise meaningless life, I am thrilled that I can bring you such joy.

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