Federal Circuit Confirms its Scrutiny of Judge Newman

The recent controversy at the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit involving Chief Judge Kimberly Moore and Judge Pauline Newman has raised concerns and garnered attention. The Court has now confirmed the rumors about Judge Moore’s actions to remove Judge Newman from an active role on the bench. According to a statement of court and two published orders, it seems that Chief Judge Moore also has the support of her fellow judges in this matter.

The primary concern revolves around Judge Newman’s alleged failng to maintain a full workload due to health issues, taking an excessive amount of time to issue opinions, and showing signs of declining mental acuity. Despite these concerns, Judge Newman has refused to participate in the process or receive any documents related to it. Additionally, she has declined to submit to a medical examination or to take senior status or retire.  Her refusal to participate in the process serves as an additional cause in the complaint.

Judge Newman’s obstinance appears to be rooted in her belief that she is “the only person [on the Court] who care[s] about the patent system and innovation policy.”  Throughout her 39 years on the Court, Judge Newman has been a stalwart supporter of strong patent rights.

Judge Newman joined the court in 1984 and is now 95 years old. She has been the oldest member of the court since the death of Judge Giles Rich in 1999 at the age of 95.  Judges Dyk and Lourie are both in their 80s.  

97 thoughts on “Federal Circuit Confirms its Scrutiny of Judge Newman

  1. 13

    I note that under the Judicial Conduct and Disability Act of 1980 (28 USC ch.16), the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit does not actually have the power to “remove” a sitting Article III judge (28 U.S.C. 354(a)(3)(A)). That would require a conviction in an impeachment by Congress.

    But what it can do, if a complaint is not dismissed, includes:
    (i) ordering that, on a temporary basis for a time certain, no further cases be assigned to the judge whose conduct is the subject of a complaint;
    (ii) censuring or reprimanding such judge by means of private communication; and
    (iii) censuring or reprimanding such judge by means of public announcement;

    and additionally for Article III judges (the Act more generally encompasses bankruptcy and magistrate judges too):
    (i) certifying disability of the judge pursuant to the procedures and standards provided under section 372(b); and
    (ii) requesting that the judge voluntarily retire, with the provision that the length of service requirements under section 371 of this title shall not apply.

    If the Judicial Conference concurs in the determination (or makes its own determination) that consideration of impeachment may be warranted, it shall so certify and transmit the determination and the record of proceedings to the House of Representatives for whatever action the House of Representatives considers to be necessary.

    1. 13.1

      I further note that under 28 U.S.C. 271(b), the certifying of a disability of a judge (“unable to discharge efficiently all the duties of his office by reason of permanent mental or physical disability”), who fails to voluntarily retire when requested, enables the President to appoint (as always, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate) an additional “substitute” judge for that circuit. The judge whose disability causes that appointment is to be treated, for purposes of precedence, as junior in commission to the other judges of the circuit.

  2. 12

    Yeesh, what a bunch of crap-posting. Judge Newman has been a boon to the Federal Circuit and the CCAP whether you agree with her or not.

    It should sadden us all that her current mental state seems to have placed her in this ignominious position.

    I am hesitant to cast aspersions on any political motives or skulduggery at work. There seems to be something of a trend of federal officials not wanting to release their grip on power, for a variety of reasons.

    1. 12.1

      It should sadden ALL of us more that the mere assertion leads to comments like: “sadden us all that her current mental state seems to have placed her in this ignominious position.

      You clearly haven’t been paying attention as that those who know her and have had recent dealings with her aver to NO such discrepancy in her current mental state.

  3. 11

    Creepy MAGAts beginning their inevitable belly crawl across this topic. Gonna be fun! You can smell the desperation as their brainworm damaged goddess topples like a statute made of creamed corn.

    Friendly reminder: GOP is controlled by a pack of r a c i st, misogynist dominionist reality-deniers who want to turn society back 200 years while they seize ownership of everything that isn’t tied down.

    1. 11.1

      Oops, forgot to mention the gun worship, the original hobby of the tiny shrinking losers everywhere.

      1. 11.1.1

        If only the President were as sharp as Judge Newman is! I especially love when he reads “end of quote” from the teleprompter.

      1. 11.3.1

        Greg,

        The first twit suffers the fallacy of “only the other side.”

        The second twit reflects the fallacy of your own sequestering yourself away (supposedly 😉 ) from my posts.

        1. 11.4.1.1

          Oh dear je sus, that thing popped up in my feed and intentionally avoided it. I overall like lex, but dude needs to cut the cringe down by like 50-80%.

          Just give me the TLDR version. It’s like 3 hrs long.

        2. 11.4.1.2

          Oooh, tasty wingnut pu ke, served up in a cup with a spork to pierce those undigested morsels.

    2. 11.5

      MM bro, did you catch Ana switching to the evil side?

      link to youtube.com

      You give me the money! lolol.

      Because the government’s forcing me to do it! And then like, after I file my taxes there’s a certain portion of that purchase which might be tax deductable, like fk off! I’m so sick of it, it’s just like MMMMMMmmmmmph, ENDLESS pressure, pressure, pressure, I can’t take it! -ana

      Basically what every evil one has been saying to themselves put right out in the open lol. So well acted out by Ana.

      1. 11.5.1

        Meh,

        I do not see her switching any side, and more so seeing merely her playing the ‘next’ V1ctim card and wanting money.

        This is part and parcel of the Liberal Left (note that she had NO wanting to take any personal responsibility for her “Green wants.”

        PLENTY of gaslighting going on in that clip – so much that I could only stomach the first ten minutes.

        1. 11.5.1.1

          “note that she had NO wanting to take any personal responsibility for her “Green wants.””

          I know right? It’s all good and dandy if someone else is paying. If you didn’t watch the pressure pressure pressure part you’re missing a true treat.

          But yeah she did switch sides on a whole lot of things. She finally got mugged/assaulted herself (a “conservative” just being a liberal that got mugged). And she’s gone 100% TERF. Add on top of that, she can’t take a few thousand dollars in spread out payments to stop the global holocaust of FIRE and BRIMSTONE from “lol climate change”, she’s 100% ebil. Remember, she’s “freaking out” about a small loan to save the planet. Or a large one, whichever lol.

          1. 11.5.1.1.1

            Listened through the rest — the narrator takes my side: she has NOT switched sides.

            Actually switching sides would mean developing a sense of personal responsibility — that’s nowhere to be found.

            And even the aspect of her “wanting protection” is not a sign of any side-switching. All current in-power Liberals wanting to ban “your guns” STILL want their own guns. She is no different than those hypocrites (everything still remains ‘about her’).

    3. 11.6

      MM bro, did you hear? From McCain’s own widow’s own mouth, the higher ups of the fed gov were “afraid” of epstein, for whatever reason. Crazy. I wonder if it was because of black mail or because of his ability to throw money against them in races? What do you think bro?

      link to youtube.com

  4. 10

    ” Despite these concerns, Judge Newman has refused to participate in the process or receive any documents related to it. ”

    100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%

    based

  5. 9

    I’m confused. Was this complaint . . . meant to be filed . . . against our bumbling, babbling, often-confused, near-senile-yet-still-in-office-and-wants-to-run-again president Biden?

    1. 9.1

      “Confused” is probably the kindest thing that can be said about you. You’ve been trolling under this nym for a year and you haven’t written two sentences beyond circle jrrking or mouth-breathing grunts. Maybe hire a 12 year old to help you out?

      1. 9.1.1

        beyond circle jrrking or mouth-breathing grunts.

        That first term earned quite a number of your posts to be deleted, the second is a mindless Leftist term.

        Do better — and keep in mind that at least the moniker of the person you are taking issue with does note his admitted lack of in-depth patent understanding — in SHARP contrast to your assertions that you are “not anti-patent” and past assertions that you are a patent attorney (the two of those quite evidencing your roaring cognitive dissonance).

        1. 9.1.1.1

          “ the person you are taking issue with does note his admitted lack of in-depth patent understanding ”

          There is no evidence of “in-depth” understanding of anything. Dude is a straight up troll sniffing your behind and you’re as deep as My Pet Goat.

          1. 9.1.1.1.1

            There is no evidence of “in-depth” understanding of anything.

            In the best Reagan tones,
            “Well, there you go again.”

            Long before the Liberal Left moniker of “The Iron Rule of Woke Projection,” there was Malcolm and his
            A
            O
            O
            T
            W
            M
            D

  6. 8

    According to a statement of court and two published orders, it seems that Chief Judge Moore also has the support of her fellow judges in this matter.

    Yet another example of the psychological thought experiment of fire-hosing simians in a cage.

  7. 7

    She should be immediately removed from office-not even a close call. The initial complaint had merit, and while J. Newmann is free to disagree with it (and can defend herself), she can’t just refuse to comply with the process. GTFO

    1. 7.1

      I laugh at Litig8tor for the obvious company that he keeps.

      Hint: only one other person — across the blogosphere — echoes your emotional reaction.

      You do know that “not complying” IS a legitimate course of action, right – after all, your moniker is akin to a litigator….

      1. 7.1.1

        “ You do know that “not complying” IS a legitimate course of action, right”

        Are you her attorney? Advising her to “keep digging until you reach China” sounds like your style.

        1. 7.1.1.1

          Behind a paywall: “An attorney close to Judge Newman told Law360 on Thursday that Judge Newman has hired counsel to defend against the complaint.

          No, it is not me.

          And to clarify, NOT cooperating is a legitimate course of action – but such does have consequences (witness the second order).

          As for Malcolm’s typical
          A
          O
          O
          T
          W
          M
          D
          Advising her to “keep digging until you reach China” sounds like your style.

          NO ONE digs more furiously to get out of a deep hole that they have dug themselves into than you.

          1. 7.1.1.1.1

            And to clarify, NOT cooperating is a legitimate course of action – but such does have consequences (witness the second order).

            You can’t possibly be a lawyer, right? She took an oath to follow federal procedure and ethics codes. She has to show cause for noncompliance with the investigation, and she hasn’t, but she is still not complying. That may be non-criminal, and the court may not be empowered to impeach, but there’s no way to call that “legitimate.”

            Hiring a lawyer to fight the underlying complaint doesn’t make her noncompliance in further investigation legitimate any more than its legitimate to resist an arrest you think is improper or obstruct an investigation into a crime you know you didn’t commit.

            Those CLE classes aren’t paying off for you, huh?

            1. 7.1.1.1.1.1

              It is legitimate – and I am an attorney.

              You kind of jumped right over the “and there may well be consequences” part.

              And yes, if I were to comment that you must be an examiner, that would be a put-down.

              1. 7.1.1.1.1.1.1

                I am an attorney.

                Is that where the “oathbreaking is legitimate action” logic comes from?

  8. 6

    While I appreciate the reporting and do not disagree that it is newsworthy, I hope that further reporting will minimal in the interests of compassion and discretion.

    1. 6.1

      She’s a high-ranking federal official whose salary is paid by taxpayers and who wields a significant amount of gov’t power. She’s been accused of failing to properly perform her official duties. The public, including visitors to this blog, unquestionably has a right to be informed about something like that.

        1. 6.1.1.1

          One might hope that Newman’s attorney(s) can do better than her defenders are doing here … but that would be naive.

          1. 6.1.1.1.1

            LOL – as opposed to Newman’s detractors…?

            My your grasp of reality is quite askew there Malcolm.

          2. 6.1.1.1.2

            Nobody actually wants her to win re re. They want her to lose, but by going down with a fight, and hopefully leveling charges of se xism (nobody said anything much about the 95 year old man judge who probably did no better than she is), abl eism (no reasonable accommodation) and ag e ism (obviously these issues are related to her age). All of which are 100% legit, especially from the lef tist perspective.

            1. 6.1.1.1.2.1

              It looks like Malcolm’s hemorrhoids are acting up again. Making him super irritable. Try Hemmorid, Malcolm, it might calm you down from your rants.

            2. 6.1.1.1.2.2

              “They want her to lose … and hopefully leveling charges of se xism”

              Too funny. Who is “they”, by the way?

              “100% legit, especially from the lef tist perspective”

              So … Newman is going to “own the libs” by filling her diaper in her seat until she croaks? Wow. Very impressive! Maybe she can shoot herself in the crotch with her Glock while she’s at it then we “leftists” will feel really “owned”!

              1. 6.1.1.1.2.2.2

                “Who is “they”, by the way?”

                Everyone so far as I know, you yourself supposedly, but not really, larp as caring about leftisms isms. When you don’t really, you just care about yourself, obviously, but we’ll play pretend even for you.

                “So … Newman is going to “own the libs” by filling her diaper in her seat until she croaks? Wow. Very impressive! Maybe she can shoot herself in the crotch with her Glock while she’s at it then we “leftists” will feel really “owned”!”

                No, she’s just doing it for herself. That is, for her own motivations, here likely psychologically getting her psychological needs met to be “doing something worthwhile and helpful and good” by being pro-patent on the court until she can’t anymore. As she already stated. But the happy coincidental by product is the roflpw ning of the lefto ids.

      1. 6.2.1

        If I invent a generative AI-based nanobot that can play a miniscule violin, would Newman support me getting a patent for that?

        1. 6.2.1.1

          According to some folks here (and maybe Newman too), you just did invent it and that includes every operative embodiment envisionable by a skilled artisan for the next 20 years. Maybe throw in the notes for a couple songs so you can point to some “sufficient structure.”

          1. 6.2.1.1.1

            You are the reason why Judge Newman may feel like she cannot retire or take senior status. (Not that I disagree)

            1. 6.2.1.1.1.1

              OK, now Prophet has to file an application with claims directed to newfangled ESP control over a federal judge’s career decisions.

        2. 6.2.1.2

          As a reminder to the audience, this is the person who wrote one hour earlier about doing the “the polite and honorable thing.”

          1. 6.2.1.2.1

            Meh, Let’s recognize the forum for what it is, and allow “impolite” banter.

            If you are looking for “polite,” you should not be on a blog.

  9. 5

    The fact that Judge Moore could not personally assume Judge Newman’s seat does not mean that there is not a potential conflict of interest.

    1. 5.1

      If you have an affirmative case to make for CJ Moore being conflicted, the polite and honorable thing would be to state it outright instead of unfounded insinuations.

  10. 4

    This was published 2 hours ago: “(Reuters) – A federal appeals judge in Washington, D.C. is under investigation by her own court for allegedly failing to carry out her duties and refusing to respond to other judges’ concerns, court officials at the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit said on Friday. An order signed by Federal Circuit Chief Judge Kimberly Moore said a three-judge committee had determined that Judge Pauline Newman, who is 95, may “suffer a disability that interferes with her ability to perform the responsibilities of her office.” Newman is also under investigation for misconduct for refusing to cooperate with the probe or submit to a medical evaluation, Moore said in the order, dated Thursday. Newman and Moore did not immediately respond to emailed requests for comment.
    In an earlier order in March, Moore said Newman had shown signs of cognitive and physical impairment, delayed filing opinions, disclosed sensitive medical information to her staff and allowed one of her law clerks to exhibit unspecified “unprofessional and inappropriate behavior.” The March order said that half of the court’s active judges expressed concern about Newman’s mental fitness. Newman had refused to consider senior status, a form of semi-retirement, calling herself the only person on the court “who cared about the patent system and innovation policy,” the order said. ….”

    1. 4.1

      P.S. I found a report that about 32% of all federal judges are on senior status [same pay, less workload] so presumably a much higher percentage of those eligible for it [age 65 and 15 years service] must be taking it?
      Does it impose any restrictions other than for some en banc reviews?

      1. 4.1.1

        Under what federal judges often call the “Rule of 80,” senior status is available when a federal judge’s age, plus their number of years of judicial service, equals 80. So a judge appointed earlier in life who has served a longer time could actually he eligible before the age of 65. There is no rule requiring that an active judge accept senior status, but there is often pressure applied to older judges to take senior status as that allows the current administration to appoint another active judge to fill that seat.

        Senior judges get a substantially reduced caseload and can often choose the types of cases they are willing to hear (district judges who go senior, for example, often specify that they don’t want to hear criminal cases or certain types of criminal cases). But senior judges remain full Article III judges until they retire or pass away, so they receive their full salary and benefits. But some of the perks of active judgeship go away; they often can hire fewer law clerks because of the reduced caseload, and in some districts, they may be asked to move to smaller offices/courtrooms. At the circuit level, as you mention, they’re typically not included in en banc consideration, which is probably a key reason someone like Newman may have have found senior status unattractive despite first becoming eligible for it in 1995.

    2. 4.2

      Nothing new in that article, everything there came from the March 2023 order that’s been made public.

  11. 3

    Importantly, and following on from my comment on the earlier post, I note that CJ Moore is proceeding under Rule 5 by “identifying”, not filing, a complaint. So she is not automatically recused. Moreover, there is no expression mention of recusal anywhere in these documents. To the contrary, it seems like she intends to participate fully for the duration.

    1. 3.1

      Why should Judge Moore be expected to recuse herself? There’s no conflict of interest here. It’s not like Newman occupies some seat that Judge Moore is coveting.

      1. 3.1.1

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting or proposing any grounds for recusal. But someone commented on the earlier post asking if she might have to recuse for procedural reasons. I was just noting the lack of any procedural requirement for her to do so under the circumstances.

  12. 2

    Judge Newman has been a blessing to the field of patent law. I only wish she had been appointed to the SCOTUS decades ago so she could have authored opinions based in an actual understanding of patent law rather than the cluelessness displayed by Thomas and others as they ham-fisted their way to continued ambiguity and uncertainty.

    1. 2.1

      Tell everyone the facts in Prometheus v Mayo, including Prometheus’ theory of infringement of their claims, and explain what was at stake in terms of the patent system and liability for drawing “new” inferences in prior art contexts.

      Go ahead. You’re a very serious person, right? Prove it.

        1. 2.1.1.1

          The funny thing about his doing that so often, is that he appears completely unaware of the fact that he does that.

          He really does seem to think that his short script of rhetoric is somehow meaningful.

          ps: any update on your design patent cases?

          1. 2.1.1.1.1

            “ He really does seem to think that his short script of rhetoric is somehow meaningful”

            It will never stop being meaningful as long as there is a tiny army of zombie tadpoles complaining about eligibility jurisprudence who can’t or won’t answer those easy questions.

            1. 2.1.1.1.1.1

              By all means, keep up the Black Knight imitation.

              Black Knight:
              Right, I’ll do you for that!

              King Arthur:
              You’ll what?

              Black Knight:
              Come here!

              King Arthur:
              What are you gonna do, bleed on me?

              Black Knight:
              I’m invincible!

              King Arthur:
              …You’re a loony.

            2. 2.1.1.1.1.2

              It will never stop being meaningful as long as…

              is translated for its actual meaning:

              It will never start being meaningful. (emphasis on PERIOD)

              .

              Malcolm, your hobby horse of “prior art contexts” has NO actual tie to 35 USC 101.

          2. 2.1.1.1.2

            Nothing new on those design patent cases. I’m frustrated but worse, the client is frustrated. I can contact the ombudsman, contact the SPE, contact the SPE’s TC Director, or just let the sleeping dog lay. There are Office Actions that have been counted but not mailed for nearly half a year at this point in those cases.

    2. 2.2

      In particular, Judge Newman has been a blessing to the field of design patent law. Whether writing in the majority, or in dissent (with impeccably correct opinions), design patents would be in an even bigger mess than they are now had it not been for her analysis. Just to mention a few: LA Gear v. Thom McAn involving a logo placed on the side of the accused design [an issue that continues to be hotly contested in the pending Columbia v. Serius case] (“Design patent infringement relates solely to the patented design, and does not require proof of unfair competition in the marketplace… or allow avoidance of infringement by labelling.”); Best Lock v. Ilco Unican involving functionality of a key blade blank (in dissent: “The design of the key profile is not removed from access to the design statute because the key fits a matching keyway. That two articles are designed in harmony does not deprive the design of access to the design patent law. The design of the key profile is not determined by the function of the key to fit the lock. In the case at bar there are said to be “thousands” of alternative key blade profiles.”); In re Daniels involving continuation practice (“The Board was incorrect in holding that any change in the design defeats a priority claim as a matter of law. As for any application asserting a priority claim, § 120 requires that the subject matter for which priority is requested must be disclosed in accordance with the requirements of § 112. A wealth of precedent guides the application of this statute. Applying the guidance of precedent, as we have discussed, the later claimed subject matter is contained in the earlier application. The leaf ornamentation in the parent application, superimposed upon the design of the leecher itself, does not obscure that design, which is fully shown in the parent application drawings. On the correct law, it must be concluded that Mr. Daniels possessed the invention that is claimed in the continuation application, and that he is entitled to claim priority under § 120.”); Revision Miliary v. Balboa involving the lower court’s refusal to consider relevant prior art in determining infringement on the basis that the designs were sufficiently distinct (“Although individual features may indeed serve in assessing the “impact on the overall appearance,” in determining whether apparently minor differences between specific features would be recognized as distinguishing the designs, it is often helpful to refer to any prior art with which the ordinary observer would reasonably be familiar. As stated in Egyptian Goddess, “the background prior art, provides … a frame of reference and is therefore often useful in the process of comparison.” The district court did not consider the prior art context in which the ordinary observer test is applied. Although the district court stated that “[b]ecause this is not a particularly close case, the court does not need prior art as a ‘frame of reference’ to apply the ‘ordinary observer test,’ ” the record suggests otherwise.”); and finally, her dissent in the infamous Cambell Soup v. Gamon case involving a Sec. 103 rejection where a major claimed design element [a cylindrical can] was missing from the Linz primary reference (“My colleagues propose that since “Linz’s design is made to hold a cylindrical object in its display area,” the Linz design must be viewed with judicial insertion of the missing cylindrical object. This analysis is not in accordance with design patent law. … My colleagues hold that the designs are substantially the same despite the absence in Linz of the cylindrical object, reasoning that it may be assumed that the Linz dispenser is for a cylindrical object. However, … the cylindrical object is a major design component. The absence from the primary reference of a major design component cannot be deemed insubstantial… My colleagues err in design patent law—in modifying the Linz design by adding a can, in order to create a design more similar to the Gamon design.”

      1. 2.2.1

        For those fearing the Wall of Text, Perry’s synopsis includes key cases of [sic]:
        LA Gear v. Thom McAn
        Best Lock v. Ilco Unican
        In re Daniels
        Revision Miliary v. Balboa
        Cambell Soup v. Gamon

      2. 2.2.2

        Hi Perry! If you saw my update above, I’ve got a couple of pending design patent cases in which I made In re SurgiSil arguments in the responses to the last Office Action. In those cases, Office Actions are just sitting there, counted but not yet mailed since November/December. What do you think? Is a new policy regarding In re SurgiSil just waiting to be implemented?

        1. 2.2.2.1

          Jeez, ipguy, your post seems like a broken record. Although MPEP 1500 has recently been amended to mention the law of Surgisil, its application to various designs remains a mystery. Perhaps you can raise this issue at Design Day 2023 at the USPTO May 4. Meantime, MPEP 1500:

          ” “A design claim is limited to the article of manufacture identified in the claim; it does not broadly cover a design in the abstract.” In re SurgiSil, L.L.P., 14 F.4th 1380, 1382, 2021 USPQ2d 1008 (Fed. Cir. 2021). See also MPEP § 1502. In SurgiSil, the Federal Circuit reversed an anticipation rejection of a lip implant over an art tool because it determined that the Board’s anticipation finding “rests on an erroneous interpretation of the claim’s scope.” Id. The court reasoned that where “[t]he claim language recites ‘a lip implant,’” and “the application’s figure depicts a lip implant, … the claim is limited to lip implants and does not cover other articles of manufacture.” Id.” “

          1. 2.2.2.1.1

            Perry, thanks for noting that MPEP 1500 now recites that:
            “A design claim is limited to the article of manufacture identified in the claim; it does not broadly cover a design in the abstract.” In re SurgiSil, L.L.P.,..(Fed. Cir. 2021). See also MPEP § 1502.”
            However, “claim is limited” is a term of infringement scope limitation or 102 rejection requirement, not necessarily prior art that meets 103 tests. Does that lead to your comment that “its [SurgiSil] application to various designs remains a mystery”? I.e., was an art tool so clearly non-analogous or unobvious for a lip implant that 103 was not in issue?

            1. 2.2.2.1.1.1

              Surgisil involved, as you know, a 102 rejection that was reversed. The case went back to the examiner, who allowed it without issuing a 103 rejection. See D979,060. The 103 issue in this case would have been whether a designer of ordinary skill of lip implants would look to the design of art tools, and the examiner apparently concluded no.

              The more interesting issue involving Surgisil is in the Columbia v. Serius case now pending before the Federal Circuit. Namely, does Surgisil limit the “comparison” prior art in determining infringement to be the same as the claimed article of manufacture? The fact that the test for infringement is the same as the test for anticipation (from the misguided International Seaway case) suggests the answer will be yes.

          2. 2.2.2.1.2

            Jeez, ipguy, your post seems like a broken record.

            Do not blame ipguy – I prodded him for an update.

          3. 2.2.2.1.3

            It does seem like a broken record. I get a Non-Final OA that turns to a Final OA, that get withdrawn, and a new Non-Final OA with new art, that then gets a Final OA, and the process repeats. No RCE filed to date. It seems the Examiner and her SPE just want to keep kicking the can down the road for as long as they can. If I filed a Notice of Appeal, they’d just withdraw the finality and issue a new Office Action. It’s abusive prosecution.

            1. 2.2.2.1.3.1

              Time for a pre-appeal brief request for review. Get 3 Examiners to review the case. Surely this has to be cheaper than the merry-go-round you are currently riding.

              1. 2.2.2.1.3.1.1

                Will they even consider a pre-appeal brief when there are actions still waiting to be mailed? Won’t they just say it’s moot. .

                1. “an applicant for a patent dissatisfied with the primary examiner’s decision in the second or subsequent rejection of the applicant’s claims may appeal to the Board”

                2. Have you considered a Petition to Make Special (aka “Rocket Docket” for designs)? It costs about $900 + the cost of a search (you need to submit the search results, but not argue patentability). The PTO is supposed to hop on these and expedite examination, meaning your stuff goes to the top of the stack.

              2. 2.2.2.1.3.1.2

                When first instituted, the path of pre-appeal conference request was a pretty effective t001 to shunt some of the examiner game-play.

                However, over the last couple of years I have seen some serious abuse of process (for example, the choosing of the three being merely choosing yes-men and not including a quality representative — I even had a personal case in which the examiner attempted to pick two other examiners and NOT even his own supervisor).

                1. It’s been years since I filed a pre-appeal brief but I’ve heard of similar shenanigans from other practitioners over the years. Even if I file a Notice of Appeal and pre-appeal brief (as well as the client having to shell out the money for the appeal fee), I am 99.9% certain that they will bounce it back to me as being pre-mature because of the pending Office Actions. I’m not saying the entire USPTO Management will game the system but it is rampant on the art unit level.

                2. I belive Perry’s point is that whether or not there are active Office Actions is neither material nor controlling as to your ability to engage in the Appeals process.

                  The point of the (initially valuable, now less so) front end of that process was that — even if the Appeal is not pursued — two additional sets of eyes are required to be placed on the ongoings.

                  Personally, I am not certain that appeal is even an appropriate path, as this may be a matter of Petition.

                  You might want to check out: 37 CFR 1.181

                  See also 35 USC 134 as repeated at MPEP 1201:

                  The United States Patent and Trademark Office (Office) in administering the Patent Laws makes many decisions of a substantive nature which the applicant may feel deny them the patent protection to which they are entitled. The differences of opinion on such matters can be justly resolved only by prescribing and following judicial procedures. Where the differences of opinion concern the denial of patent claims because of prior art or other patentability issues, the questions thereby raised are said to relate to the merits, and appeal procedure within the Office and to the courts has long been provided by statute (35 U.S.C. 134 ).

                  also:

                  The line of demarcation between appealable matters for the Board and petitionable matters for the Director of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (Director) should be carefully observed. The Board will not ordinarily hear a question that should be decided by the Director on petition, and the Director will not ordinarily entertain a petition where the question presented is a matter appealable to the Board. Ordinarily, an objection is petitionable, and a rejection is appealable, but when the objection is “determinative of the rejection” the matter may be addressed by the Board. See In re Hengehold, 440 F.2d 1395, 1403, 169 USPQ 473, 479 (CCPA 1971) and Ex parte Frye, 94 USPQ2d 1072, 1078 (Bd. Pat. App. & Int. 2010)(precedential). Some matters which have been determined to be petitionable and not appealable include: a requirement for restriction or election of species, finality, non-entry of amendments, and holdings of abandonment. As 37 CFR 1.181(f) states that any petition not filed within 2 months from the action complained of may be dismissed as untimely and since 37 CFR 1.144 states that petitions from restriction requirements must be filed no later than appeal, petitionable matters will rarely be present in a case by the time it is before the Board for a decision. In re Watkinson, 900 F.2d 230, 14 USPQ2d 1407 (Fed. Cir. 1990).

                3. Backtracking a bit on what I said about filing a pre-appeal brief, it’s of course hard to recommend next steps without knowing the exact status and history of ipguy’s application. Perhaps the case is not ripe for appeal.
                  As to whether something is appealable or petitionable, in the past I have tried to avoid filing a petition on anything, because it takes forever to get a decision on a petition, during which time you have to file a bunch of continuations to keep the case alive because filing a petition does not stay any outstanding period for response to an Office action. On the other hand, the pre-appeal process is comparatively speedy. Also, in Group 2900 (designs) my experience is that it’s handled not only expeditiously, but fairly.

                4. Thanks Perry – agree completely that the petition process amounts to a rigged game in that there simply is no impetus for the Office to act in a timely matter.

                  So much so that several of my coworkers simply refuse to even consider filing petitions – even when the matter is perfect for that avenue.

                5. “in the past I have tried to avoid filing a petition on anything, because it takes forever to get a decision on a petition, during which time you have to file a bunch of continuations to keep the case alive because filing a petition does not stay any outstanding period for response to an Office action”

                  +1

                6. Thank you, anon.
                  A petition is a viable course of action but, as Perry so eloquently pointed out, it takes forever to get a decision on a petition, and it doesn’t stay the matter. In this case, since Office Actions have not yet been mailed out, I could file a petition and have “extra” time without having to file extensions of time since the actions were not mailed out. On the other hand, filing a petition would presumably jar the USPTO into mailing out the Office Action.

  13. 1

    Congrats to the personality cultists and fanboys here for facilitating the warping of this elderly person’s deteriorating brain.

    “ Judge Newman’s obstinance appears to be rooted in her belief that she is “the only person [on the Court] who care[s] about the patent system and innovation policy.”

    Hilarious … and also sad.

    Even DC can’t help himself (again): “Judge Newman has been a stalwart supporter of strong patent rights.”

    The term “strong patent rights” is meaningless. Fighting for ridiculously expansive patent rights that are not going to stand up in higher courts or in the court of public opinion is the best way to WEAKEN the entire patent system and, if anything, that is Newman’s legacy (also the legacy of many of her fanboy commenters online).

    Newman notoriously authored one of the least thoughtful and least defensible dissents in the history of the CAFC. If it were up to her, applicants could be claiming rights to drugs and other compositions of matter whose structures were completely unknown (?!), including compositions whose structures were only later determined by other parties. That’s a ludicrous position and we should all be grateful her absurd arguments in that case were crushed. It’s unfortunate that other views of her weren’t crushed as well.

    1. 1.1

      Congrats to the personality cultists and fanboys here for facilitating the warping of this elderly person’s deteriorating brain.

      wrong and wrong – but you be you and continue your rather plain-to-see gaslighting efforts.

      The term “strong patent rights” is meaningless

      Such a Liberal Left empty trick –
      Y
      A
      W
      N

      the opposite is not only true, YOUR vehemence is only more proof of that which — for whatever reason — you seem to want to deny.

      The cognitive dissonance that you must suffer on a daily basis — working to provide people with the very thing that you so clearly
      H
      A
      T
      E
      no wonder that YOU are so warped.

    2. 1.2

      “The term “strong patent rights” is meaningless. ”

      MM bro you do know by now that they’re talking about things like a. having a patent that is worth having in terms of it being difficult to just invalidate ezmode and b. having patents that are enforceable without super huge problems and c. not having patents invalidated just “because” (which is historically a rather popular reason, though it seems ridiculous that it would be). Further, many of would probably like a system that would allow for mistakes in drafting that are mistakes that for all intents and purposes are harmless mistakes (that is, maybe it doesn’t draft around the prior art to the liking of whatever judge is adjudicating the case, but a small drafting change still has everyone infringing and is clearly distinguished from the art etc. situations like that).

      1. 1.2.1

        MM bro you do know by now

        Of course he knows 6 — he is gaslighting (at least attempting to do so) anyone thinking anything else.

    3. 1.3

      “Newman notoriously authored one of the least thoughtful and least defensible dissents in the history of the CAFC.”

      To which case are you referring? Serious question.

      1. 1.3.1

        Hit a filter…

        Awaiting moderation.

        April 16, 2023 at 5:29 pm

        Good question.

        But given that most of her dissents are “not0r1ously” pro-patent, I would be “interested” in Malcolm’s “Most Not0rioue Five.”

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